Over at the IDOS forum there has been a thread running for some time about sourdough .

http://forums.idos.org/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=20620  It started with a very experience DO cook asking about keeping her sourdough going in the refrigerator.  & lately its expanded to include discussion of how the sourdough was kept alive in pre-refrigherator days and when you can tell that you haven't used your sourdough often enough.

& through out, there is the idea that you start the sourdough from the air.

:-/

I have always believed that proper sourdough has natural yeasts collected from the air.

Derek wrote on Feb 21^st, 2009 at 1:34pm:

I have always believed that proper sourdough has natural yeasts collected from the air.

Check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourdough

Sourdough can be started from the air, but it is a roll of the dice as to what kind of yeasty beasty that you will get. It would always be best to get a start from someone with an existing batch.

As far as feeding: every 3 days unrefridgerated or 3 weeks refridgerated MINIMUM.

Best,
Duncan

From what Iv'e seen (being a beer brewer, distiller & bread maker, all round yeast tinkerer ;D)
The best yeast for a particular type of fruit or grain, grow naturally on the skin or husk of that type of plant, naturally selected because they do suite that plants properties & climate.
For example
the best Wine yeasts come from the skins of the grape they are fermenting.
Beer brewing yeast grows naturally on the husk of Barley.
& Iv'e got a feeling that Bakers yeast comes from the husks on Wheat (different yeast from Brewers yeast)
So would the best sourdough yeast be gathered from the air in the middle of a wheat field???

Just a thought??
Mick.  

BillyBushCook wrote on Feb 25^th, 2009 at 4:36pm:

So would the best sourdough yeast be gathered from the air in the middle of a wheat field??? Just a thought??

Mick,

Close. what would be the best way to gather yeast would be from a moldy cluster of wheat heads. Just drop a moldy head in a jar of flour and milk, cover and wait for it to develop.

I say milk as most water around the world today is chlorinated and that will kill your yeast.

Best,
Duncan

Yes, but chlorine evaporates from the water.

No, re chlorine in milk.  Pasteurizing is the process of making milk most safe, if stored properly.  The thing is to raise milk to 140'F and keep it at that temperature for 10 minutes.  We did when we were kids.  I earned $0.05 for each milking.  Hence I did the pasturizing process daily for 7 years.

:)

Duncan MacDuff wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 3:55am:

I say milk as most water around the world today is chlorinated and that will kill your yeast. Best, Duncan

Why not catch a bit of rain water? or Tank water?
One hitch is that rain or tank water contains micro-organisms (read wild yeasts) & thats one reason why it should be boiled before using it for brewing, same goes for tap water, just boil it to drive the Chlorine off & let it cool!!!
Then you will have pure water with no bugs!

Mick.

Although not bottled but supplied in bulk to the Dairy Industry
raises further concerns - see report:

Dihydrogen Monoxide in the Dairy Industry

The use of Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) by farmers in the U.S. and
internationally is prevalent. Typical of this is the widespread use
of DHMO in the U.S. dairy industry. The facts surrounding DHMO's
presence in the nation's milk supply are surprising. What may be
even more surprising is the silence of the U.S. Government on the
issue of DHMO in the milk our families drink every day....

Full report with DHMO affected cow picture at:

http://www.dhmo.org/milk.html


This stuff should definately be banned - KD

No to milk for sourdough that you keep.

Yes, when making up something to bake today.

Sourdough is supposed to last something like 3 weeks in a fridge.  Would  you keep milk that long/

The old time families would use sourdough daily, thus the starter was fed daily.  I think, non-fridgerated it should last 3 days without feeding, but would be best if used every day.  Would you expect milk to keep without being kept cool?

So, skipping past any chemical preservatives used by the big dairies, it's still a no-no.

:)

Just wondering if any others had opinions on Dihydrogen Monoxide ?

I will stick to my trusty VB! But expect it is in it too.

KD

Kingsthorpe David wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 8:52am:

Dihydrogen Monoxide in the Dairy Industry This stuff should definately be banned - KD

Yep, it ranks right up there with Hydrogen hydroxide! Nasty stuff should be avoided at all costs. :D  

Best,
Duncan

:-X

Kingsthorpe David wrote on Feb 26^th, 2009 at 10:02pm:

Just wondering if any others had opinions on Dihydrogen Monoxide ?

I am just worried about what fish do in it....


Duncan MacDuff wrote on Feb 27^th, 2009 at 2:51am:

Yep, it ranks right up there with Hydrogen hydroxide! Nasty stuff should be avoided at all costs.

And this stuff has me concerned that fish can't live without it....



I understand that both of these should be actively substituted by a complex formula that needs to be distilled and built in the following format:

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/816/80023265.JPG

I suggest a shortcut, and purchasing the solution in a suitably containerised product.  Fortunately, there are a couple of liquids that will substitute for the efforts of constructing the molecules required.

http://www.beveragewarehouse.com/images/products/6272.jpg

or for the more committed to purity

http://images.send.com/100200_big.jpg

Rastas000 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2009 at 6:27am:

suggest a shortcut, and purchasing the solution in a suitably containerised product.Fortunately, there are a couple of liquids that will substitute for the efforts of constructing the molecules required.

Prolly all DHMO tainted as well. You cant trust anything these days.
Not sure how fish got into this discussion, they will also be DHMO tainted for sure from my researches.

KD